December 13, 2004

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The Washington Times is reporting on an Army paper that could be the beginning of a move to place woman in direct combat roles. As it stands now, women can serve on all combat ships except submarines (where it is impossible to make accomadations for privacy) and fly combat aircraft. The line is drawn at women serving in infantry combat units. Instead, they serve in support units which can, as was the case in Iraq, end up taking casualties. The Army's official reasoning for this exclusion is that women, on average, do not have the upper body strength of a man and so can not carry weight over as long a distance (or support a rifle for extended periods of time). There are also hygiene issues to consider, although we'll leave that for another time.

Woman will be serving in combat before the end of the decade. There is just too much pressure put on the Army and Marines by feminists and their political followers to allow the current situation to go unchanged. But the question is: what will be gained by this? Surveys done within the Army show that the majority of enlisted women do not want to be part of combat units. Will higher female casualties somehow strike a blow for "equality"?

Our armed forces do not exist as platforms for social experimentation. They exist to perform the worst thing a nation can ask of it's citizen soldiers: to go forth and kill the nation's enemies and break their spirit. It is, in many respects, the most uncivilzed practice we engage in yet we must always prepare for it. I may be a sexist, but I have always believed that woman are the civilizing force in our society. Men learn how to treat women from their mothers; it is our wives who keep us from being drooling idiots (well, sometimes anyway). Women have no place in combat not because they are physically weaker, but because they are so different from men in their behavior.

I know that someone will e-mail me and tell me about Aunt Martha, who was a MASH nurse in Korea and is tough as nails or flew cargo planes during World War 2. That's fine, but ask yourself this question: would you want your daughter sharing a foxhole with a group of male foot soldiers?

Posted by Matthew at December 13, 2004 03:25 PM
Comments

Let's take the physical equality out of the equation for a moment. Let's say we are physically equals. The reason that women should not be in any combat role and strictly in a support role far from the front is that when taken prisoner her fellow male soldiers are incapabale of treating and reacting in certain situations, as if she were a man. If I were taken prisoner with female counter parts I would not be able to as easily adhere to my orders of not divulging information, if women comrades were being beaten or tortured or mistreated. It is not any weakness on their part but something at the core of a man that makes him more protective of a woman.

Posted by: sly at December 13, 2004 03:49 PM

That's an incredibly valid point and one that I would've brought up had a I thought of it at the time. However, the radical feminists out there (who wouldn't have the guts to wear a uniform for a cause larger than their own vaginas) would dismiss your comment totally, saying that it's cultural in nature.

You know what? They're right. We treat women like gold; the sub-humans in the Middle East treat them like cattle.

Posted by: Matt at December 13, 2004 05:28 PM

I have never served in the military so I can't really draw on any experience in the formation of my opinion. I do have the utmost respect and admiration for those who do serve, man or woman. I don't, however want to see women in combat units. What's next? Are we going to start drafting women if that comes into play?

My main concern is that women do not have the physical capacity to fight against men in a combat situation no matter how well they are trained. I think it would make our combat units weaker and may even cost us some battles. Can a 120lb woman run as fast as a 200lb man when carrying all that heavy gear? How many men will die going back to get a woman who can't keep up?

I know my questions seem sexist but I am just being realistic. I say let the men and women train together and if the women can keep up I say have at it. You can't lower your expectations in our military just to be fair because war isn't fair at all and the entire free world is at stake when America is involved in a war.

Posted by: David at December 13, 2004 06:52 PM

David you bring up valid points, but as I said in my earlier post having served, even if the physical requirements for men and women were equal, and there are women that can meet the men's requirements, the fact of the matter is deep down, most men value a woman's life more than a man's. It's a fact. We are not equal. We hold a woman's life above a man's, and you know what, that's a good thing.

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Posted by: sly at December 13, 2004 10:49 PM

Sly, Thanks for your comment. It means a lot to me.

Going to Sly's original post.

Sly makes an excellent point ... "when taken prisoner her fellow male soldiers are incapabale of treating and reacting in certain situations, as if she were a man"

That was best expressed for me in the movie GI Jane. They had that exact situation happen to them in the "training island" scenario. The Master Chief after a fight with Demi Moore is sitting on the dock talking to his fellow officer. And when the officer questions him about what he did, he says ... "Don't you see ? THEY (women) are not the problem. WE (Men) are." He said that because of the reaction he elicited from the soldiers on Demi's unit and from his own fellow officers when he attacked her. The very reaction he was trying to "train" the Navy Seals NOT to have. To NOT crack under pressure when you are captured, and your fellow soldiers are tortured.

Could that natural "protective" reaction be overcome by proper training ? I don't know. IMO, it's possible, but very difficult.

The exclusion of women from the armed forces has been opposed as discriminatory. That ususally happens when you go about excluding people the "wrong way". And thus now I believe the "incorporation" of women will probably be done for the wrong reasons, i.e trying to corect a wrong. Two wrongs NEVER make a right.

Take the armed forces of the old Soviet Union. They took the approach long ago of using women in the services, where they felt women were needed.

The soviets used women a LOT for espionage. Women were much better at eliciting information out of men because as we all know ,Men are WEAK. LOL.

Indeed, in some cases such as fighter aircraft pilots, women were considered superior because of their ability to take G-Forces better, and some of their best fighter pilots were women. I saw a discovery channel show once with an ace woman Mig 21 fighter pilot. They were asking her about this subject of women in combat. She said she was so "valuable" to the Russian AF, that they wouldn't let her fly combat aircraft. She was their Ace instructor for over 2 decades. Whether this was the truth or just an excuse, she would never know. But in her mind she felt appreciated, NOT discriminated.

What I am getting at, is in any walk of life, when people feel appreciated, and you "honestly" tell them why you feel they shouldn't do a certain job, most people won't scream "discrimination". The idiots on the fringe always will, but we shall leave them be. When we make up "pseudo offical" reasons such as lack of average upper body strength, is when we get into trouble. All that gives is ammo to the fringe idiots.

After all, there is a screening process in the military. And if you lack the ability to carry a rifle for 20 hrs straight while hiking through a jungle, you aint gonna make it. Whether you are a Man or a Woman.

Hash

Posted by: Hash at December 14, 2004 09:52 AM

Well said.

Posted by: sly at December 14, 2004 10:41 AM

The fringe idiots also want easier stardards for those they feel are being discriminated against.

Posted by: Shawn at December 14, 2004 11:37 AM

I want easier standards so I can collect food stamps and Welfare. Also, why can't I collect WIC benefits?

Posted by: sly at December 14, 2004 01:50 PM

Look. All you guys are doing is just talking because it has not been proven yet. Let's get this thing rolling and let them in. When we come to that point of beatings we will know. I bet some army guy watched his buddy get beat and gave up some info. So what's the difference??

Posted by: joe at December 14, 2004 09:16 PM

It has happened, in Iraq.

Posted by: sly at December 14, 2004 10:21 PM

It has happened in Iraq. With men and women so you have no point.

Posted by: joe at December 15, 2004 03:41 PM

My point is that men had a tougher time dealing with female POW's as opposed to male POW's.

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